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| Death in June, Baltimore 2013 |
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Keeping an eye on the neo-fascists burrowing their way into a subculture near you
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Monday, 7 October 2013
Neofolk or Neovolk? One's Personal Take on a Death in June Concert in Baltimore
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Death in june are not fascist,they are right wing and eurocentrics,but the nazi symbols are only pure aesthetics(and totenkopf existed before the birth of nazism) .Many neo folk bands are traditionalists and aristocratics,but they have nothing to do with the fascism,and some of these(like Rome,Die weisse rose,Gae Bolg,Sieben and Sol Invictus)seem to be left wing or socialists or liberal democratics...
ReplyDeletehmm.. personally Im not convinced on Death In June being right-Wing, for Douglas P. was not only involved into Left wing movements when younger, but actively pursuing LGBT rights.
DeleteAnonymous 8 Oct 2013 11.53.00 - please go away, read the rest of Who Makes The Nazis - then come back with a more informed opinion - and furthermore, try and avoid making statements that show you have read and believed propaganda spread by the various musical groups you mention.The only group in your list of possible left wing etc. groups that can qualify as anti-fascist proper are Gae Bolg - as if you read the comments published here made by Karl Blake, you will see that Roger was in fact sacked from Sol Invictus for complaining to a promoter about the high quotient of fascistic groups playing at a venue in Leipzig - which would indicate that, for whatever reason, Tony Wakeford wasn't so keen to distance himself as Eric obviously thought he was, or was told he was...likewise, the other bands you list do not seem keen to name names when they denounce fascist bands that they, at least - unlike you - acknowledge DO exist - Rome, for example seems very fond of Kim Larsen, Of the Wand and the Moon [see a comment on the previous posting] and does not state any band names - he also mentions Death in June in a non-critical light. Your comments about Death In June are ill-informed at best - read what is written in amongst these articles. The Deaths Head is used because it is second world war german army useage - nothing to do with its prior useage - it is in tandem often with german camo uniform clothing - Pearce often takes his titles directly from the same period and source, so don't be stupid and faux-naive - you fool no-one - although it is just possible it is you who are fooled.
ReplyDeleteFacts not words...and the facts are clear...
DeleteSol Invictus in the 90's were right wing,pagans and traditionalists(but i repeat NOT fascists)...but now they seem to be left wing,in their last cd "The cruellest month",there are songs like the anarchic"To kill all kings" or the socialist hymn"Blackleg miner"...
Sieben song "Rite against the right"in"Desire rites",no need comments,just read the text...
Rome in "Flowers from exile"talk about spanish civil war ,by the point of view of anarchists and repubblicans...
Die Weisse Rose,the name is taken by the organization of anti nazi students lead by Sophie Scholl...
These are facts!.
ROME are anarchists. But of course you're too lazy to read their lyrics.
DeleteABC - you sir or madam are a dickhead and a twat - I say that with the same conviction that you have after not reading the rest of Who Makes The Nazis and wising up - I do not think you bothered to read anything - likewise I know nothing about you - but on the basis of this little bit of information - that you like to go to websites armed with nothing more than ill-informed opinion that you have gleaned after looking at a couple of pictures and listening no doubt to the flattened drone that constitutes Death In June - probably going to a concert and getting your ticket stub signed and fawning and drooling like all non-critical, star-struck fans do. So - I have come to many conclusions about you based equally on supposition and guesswork based on bias - so, Dickhead or Twat - or both, is that OK with you too?
ReplyDeletePretty sure ABC meant that comment sarcastically toward the first commenter here...
DeleteBoth is fine Joe - but my comment was actually aimed at taking the piss out of Anonymous at the top of the thread. (and was posted before yours had appeared) ;-)
ReplyDeleteI don't know, but I think ABC may be exercising sarcasm at the expense of Anonymous (8th October).
ReplyDeleteStelnikov and co.,don't have arguments about my questions.This is the real reason why,you don't publish my answers to Joe Amaretti...But it doesn't matter...for me it' s only the prove that yours is only a diffamatory campaign against groups that nothing have to do with fascism...however people like Stewart Home don't have any credibility,in the 90's writes the introduction to Sol Invictus lyrics,and now call them fascists,it'obvious that there are personal reasons in the attacks he makes against Tony Wakeford.
ReplyDeleteThank you,bye bye
i should have paid more attention then - i just thought that anonymous may have progressed further up the evolutionary chain and - shock horror! even mastered the alphabet! sufficient even to try signing a name - sadly imagination deserted them....A..err ...B.... - but it was fun ripping into them! and - i really think they would have left that comment-comeback - like a stroppy child - or fascist. Your use of it is fine, however, real ABC. Becuase you are on the right side it seems. Sad how things really are not fair at times, isn't it? it needs to be like that so that fascists can understand that democracy and communism even - may really not be that bad.
ReplyDeleteWell now! i didn't know that anon had tried to reply to me - but actually I am grateful that I [and by extention the people on here] were not witness to this 'reply' or 'replies' - based on the barely literate signing-off on the 11th. I worry that I will explode as a result of the display of ignorance - is your name Mads, by some chance? seems a suitable name for someone who cannot - or will not - read - instead constantly whining tired, worn-out lies about things that have been clearly explained on here and on stewart homes own website. In fact - I guess i'm quite pissed off with you getting any chance to write on here at all - I suppose that the webmaster wants to show just how truly idiotic and dull-witted the defenders of fascists really are - and you perform that task so perfectly.
ReplyDeleteJoe,i'm not an englishman,this is the reason why in my post there are some grammatical errors...but what i say have got sense,and i don't use the foul language like you do,'cause in my family the good education is important...i'm never been a defender of fascists,but maybe you are a ghostsbuster(and see fascists everywhere...it could be paranoia...)
ReplyDeleteHowever if you (or Stelnikov)could answer me about some questions,i will be very grateful to you...
1 In the last Sol Invictus disc "The Cruellest month",there are anarchic hymns like "To kill all kings",or socialist songs of the working class like "The Blackleg miner".Why a fascist band play songs like these?.In the facebook page of Sol Invictus ,Putin was criticized for his politic against gays,...do you think that it is a tipically fascist position?.
2 Rome disc"Flowers of exile"talks about spanish civil war and takes the point of view of the republicans and anarchics....How can you have any doubts about Jerome Reuter?.
3 Die Weisse Rose name of the band is taken by the group of anti nazi students lead by Sophie Scholl...Why a nazi band should take a name of an anti nazi organization?.
4 Sieben song "Rite against the right",is real clear in the text,and it is an anti fascist song.
Excuse me for my terrible english language,but the sense of my questions is clear,and i'm not here to provoke you,but for understand(if it is possible...).
I excuse myself with Stelnikov,of course he could decide to publish or not what he wants,but i' ve got the doubt that there aren't possible answers to my questions.
Greetings
ok - if I used bad language it is because I truly, truly hate fascists and people who defend fascists - it has nothing to do with bad education or parenting...
ReplyDeletein answer to your questions.
1] Sol Invictus is STILL a band led by a fascist who was of the national bolshevik type who is concerned to maintain as much as possible a music career where he obtains maximum sales - which he would not comfortably do in the exclusive world of the far right - the band itself is comprised of people whose personal politics are unclear in certain areas - but first and foremost are personal concerns related to animal rights and sexuality. Wakeford was very keen to 'wear his lesbians' with their mute acquiescence, as a kind of badge - it was indeed a stroke of luck that he stumbled across them - although they had been on the scene in a multicultural band which incorporated Dev Michael Victor around the turn of the Millenium - Dev is a sometime right-hand man to Troy Southgate, and is a continuing link between all the apparently warring strands of the esoteric far-right - [still friendly with Southgate, who I believe attended the most recent Sol Invictus concert in the UK- despite Wakefords half-hearted semi-public display of making Southgate his new Boogie Man], putting on the fascist 60s american folk group Changes under a Julius Evola banner [Ride the Tiger], supporting Ian Reads Arcanorum College [again, Read being the tolerated fascist element amongst a crowd of self and occult-interested individuals].
So - with that in mind, about the recording - there are no such things as 'a typical fascist approach' other than a complex one - Southgate claims not to be fascist - I do not want to get tangled in pedantry such as what exact kind of fascist is Wakeford - I would say he has, like Southgate, always led an apparent winding path thru the far right - his continuing friendship with Patrick Harrington, for example, who has assisted the BNP at times since the millenium - who sought to establish firm links with extreme jewish orthodox people - such as Rabbi Schiller. His use of anarchic songs is of no surprise - National Bolshevism again - here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevism - this explains the unwavering aspect to Wakefords stance throughout the years [any deviation to this has been due to pressure of outside forces, legal and otherwise] - you will see there - apart from the Gay angle, the reason for being anti-Putin. 'The blackleg miner' also plays simply to Wakefords love of the traditional english folk tune as well as to bolshevik anti-capitalism - he has done things like this before - notably when Sally Doherty was in the band.
2] It is easy to have doubts about Jerome Reuter - he still does not name names, he appears willingly upon bills where fascist bands also play, such as Triari [http://totalwar.wikia.com/wiki/Triarii] , he states that Kim Larsen of Of the Wand and the Moon is a friend, he talks admiringly of Death In June - the post above goes into these details - sometimes the motivation to do certain songs i quite simply to throw people off the scent or has some arcane personal justification not expressed by the performer - certainly Rome seems to have potential for more mass appeal that would be hampered by identification with the Far Right, and this could well be reason for any stance or statement - if he were to be consistent - which he is not, then he would be more believable - his words are cheap it seems. I do not have a wide knowledge of the Spanish Civil War - so I could not say.
ROME actually cancelled a gig because Jerome Reuter discovered a fascist band (Spreu and Weizen) were playing in the same show.
DeleteAgain, do some proper research. He even quotes a full Proudhon quote in one of his songs.
continuing answering anonymous questions of 16 oct 2013 17.14
ReplyDelete3] Die Wiesse Rose - the name - who knows? were Joy Division nazi? effectively - what is in a name? I do know that the man described himself as a revolutionary conservative or something of that nature, and according to Discogs "Danish Die Weisse Rose founded in 2001, by Thomas Bøjden. Has over the years collaborated with: Foresta Di Ferro, Allerseelen, :Of The Wand And The Moon:, Blood Axis, Rome A.O." That then is dfinately four and possibly five fascist collaborators - show me the interviews where he renounces these associations. This is his most recent record label "EXTREMOCIDENTE is a label operating from Lisbon connected to what could be loosely termed ' Industrial Culture '. Extremocidente is the result of stubbornness allied to the ongoing war against the effects of time , a war we know we will lose . Extremocidente does not pretend to be a platform for any kind of political , social or personal change . Extremocidente is a watchtower , a place where you can stop , observe and possibly even draw conclusions about the age we live in . Despite having no political agenda Extremocidente is Libertarian in content and Totalitarian in approach . Our enemy is strong and we are sieged . Extremocidente feels blessed to live in the present times ." A statement that is self-contradicting - the bands on the label are many from the neofolk far-right - and also include ZetzeroAlpha which is the band of the head of the italian fascists Casa Pound.
4] Sieben....Matt Howden has indeed what seems to be an antifascist song - but being on the label of and collaborating with Albin Julius makes this an extremely stupid or hollow thing. At best Howden is just a careerist - at worst who knows? - why is he friends with Troy Southgate on Facebook, for example despite Wakeford renouncing both Cold Spring and Southgate? [don't worry - if it disappears I have saved the evidence].
If you really are serious I think you'll find sufficient cause to doubt what you previously believed - and even if you do not - others will. Remember - you doubted the truth of what was being said - Tony Wakeford is on record as having continuously lied about his involvement with both the National Front and also with his previous group Above the Ruins - it was only when he really had to that he issued his statement of regret - and even that is ambivalent and had to be further challenged - he has both played fast and loose with the truth and outright lied in the past - do you still take his word on any of this? and by extention - do you not think the others are lying under possible duress from the likes of either antifa or in extreme cases, the law?
Joe ,i understand your point of view,but you try to understand mine.I don't want to say that you're right or wrong...It is real that Tony Wakeford was in the National Front in the 80's,and that he was a member of the"Above the ruin"band,and he was(or he is)friend of leaders of the far right(Harrington,Lawson,etc).
DeleteBut if Sol Invictus are:pro ecology,pro animal rights,linked as "neo folk against racism",pro jewish,pro gay,play socialists songs,etc...at the end of all,where is the far right message in what they do?.why they are so dangerous?.
Even if they were secretly fascists,what does it matter,if the contents are far from this point of view?.
Anyway i thank you for the answers,and thank Stelnikov that has published my comments.
an addenda - the label - extremocidente - home to Sol Invictus in 2007 - and Die Weisse Rose, Boyd Rice, Death in June, Wertham etc. - it seems ZetzeroAllpha were in really good company - also released is HATE FOR BREAKFAST http://www.discogs.com/artist/Hate+For+Breakfast - described as "Italian RAC/Hatecore Band." that is ROCK AGAINST COMMUNISM - also connected to the band Zetazeroalfa Divisione Rumore is the label Rupe Tarpea Produzioni http://www.discogs.com/label/Rupe+Tarpea+Produzioni which is wall-to-wall unabashed fascist bands of the hatecore genre.
ReplyDeleteJoe Moretti Pearce makes a number of unassailable points here – maybe best not to continually ask 'Who knows' but to take on face value the stuff which enters the public arena. To whit, someone on a previous post claims that Les Joyaux De La Princesse are simply a historical re-enactment society. Why, then, have they released a tribute to 'the French Goebbels'? See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YBhktTAWcs
ReplyDeletePerhaps 'In Memoriam' actually implies condemnation, in the topsy turvy world of neo-folk?
The quality of mercy (not to mention the benefit of the doubt) is getting fucking strained out here, in the real world.
Somehow you forgot to mention that they also released a tribute to Die Weiße Rose, a german anti-fascist resistance group. See:
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiLSjpTxec0
But since is doesn't fit into your (or Strelnikov's) reality tunnel this comment will surely be blocked anyway...
Er, wrong, clearly. Presenting conflicting material with equivalence may well work for the Youtube generation, but what kind of cultural movement is it that celebrates and commemorates both Resistance movements AND Vichy propagandists equally? One which might be:
ReplyDeletea) Poorly grounded in European history, and revelling in its own ignorance?
b) Hopelessly confused, and with no underlying moral stance to call its own?
c) Part of a wider pan-European campaign to rebrand aspects of the National Socialist counter-revolution as benign, progressive, misunderstood but a product of historical expediency?
I know which answer my money's on, and this also answers the questions posed by Anonymous of 20th October concerning Sol Invictus and their stressing of the ostensibly 'positive' aspects of anti-globalization. It's an accentuation which all ties in with the Political Soldier ideology which spawned this grubby scene, but Wakeford, to take one example, is never going to convince anyone of his socialist credentials by appropriating 'The Blackleg Miner' – and the same goes for Les Joyaux and their thematic opportunism.
The fundamental question remains: why do these apolitical 'artists' continue to fraternise, record and play alongside fascists?
Also, Anonymous of 20th October shouldn't place too much faith in single-page initiatives like 'Neo-folk Against Racism'. It takes a matter of hours to knock up a 'false flag' dummy site which may allay superficial concerns. These pages offer no authentication or opportunity for interaction, and have zero credibility.
ReplyDeleteits the company he keeps - who knows why he does what he does - maybe doing the 1989 record with Death in June made things uncomfortable so i 1995 he did the white rose? anyway - he was back on fascist groove with freya aswynn a couple of years later - and Tesco Org too, and Muslimgauze too, and Blood Axis, and Athenor and then this tribute to the man mentioned above - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Henriot - such a fickle fellow - but don't judge him too harshly, no!
ReplyDeleteCan I please take this aside for one moment - I don't know who this 'anonymous' is - i suspect more than one person - but can i offer up this line from below - "Please at least use a pseudonym so it's possible to follow your argument if you make multiple posts" - in particular
ReplyDeleteAnonymous21 Oct 2013 17:42:00 please do this - that way we will know absolutely who the whining wanker is at Anonymous21 Oct 2013 17:42:00 and petition Strelnikov or whoever they are to ban this particular shitpants forever - I suspect it is not the same person who says they are not english [Anonymous20 Oct 2013 13:05:00 and other] becuase they know that whoever it is at the helm here makes some attempt to be "fair" - as opposed to the other person who is just trying again to make trouble and represent things as they are not - if it were up to me I would stop much debate because when I am in doubt I state that I am in doubt - when i do not know I state that I do not know - and when i am certain that I am right I say it - the persons I rail against haven't bothered with this filter - they either have a sloppy, ill-conceived agenda designed to prop up their own bloated egos and vile tastes - or are agents of fascism. Those who genuinely have doubt either way I have some time for. I say again - if you can , ban whoever that whiner was, Strelnikov.
"I noticed Kevin I. Slaughter in the audience. His publishing company – Underground Amusements - publishes some of the works of Jack Donovan an anti-feminist, anti-gay, anti-equality author."
ReplyDeletelol, Jack IS gay you nutsack.
Did anyone say Jack Donovan WASN'T gay, Anonymous24 Oct 2013 01:13:00? - pardon me if I refer you to the concept of grey area - somewhere between black and white - Douglas Pearce, Death In June felt he had to dedicate a track to the earl duncan pub bomber David Copeland or to the Grey Wolves - one or the other - self-hatred or just hatred or certain archetypes of his own sexuality? here is the Wikipedia of Jack Donovan - obviously compiled by liars and the like - because they seem to think the same as the person you quoted -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Donovan - so on behalf of the person you dissed I'd like to say - fuck YOU, shit-head!"
ReplyDeleteYes, and Self-Hating with it. From Wikipedia: " In Androphilia, Donovan employs the word androphilia to distinguish his own experience of homosexual desire, which he defines as a “Mars/Mars” attraction between two men, from the label “gay” which, Donovan claims, is inseparable from connotations of effeminacy and “a whole cultural and a political movement that promotes anti-male feminism, victim mentality, and leftist politics.”
ReplyDeleteHe contributes to Alternative Right, an internet shitsheet which seeks to exculpate apartheid, quasi-scientific racism and The Golden Dawn, and features Alex Kurtagic and Keith Preston amongst its regular contributors.
to Anonymous20 Oct 2013 13:05:00 - you said -
ReplyDelete"But if Sol Invictus are:pro ecology,pro animal rights,linked as "neo folk against racism",pro jewish,pro gay,play socialists songs,etc...at the end of all,where is the far right message in what they do?.why they are so dangerous?.
Even if they were secretly fascists,what does it matter,if the contents are far from this point of view?."
the answer - firstly, they could be doing the following - there is certainly the association and track record - these next quotes are from Troy Southgates' guide to Entryism....
"Indeed, intelligent street propaganda can lead to very effective results" "Entryism is the name given to the process of entering or infiltrating bona fide organisations, institutions and political parties with the intention of either gaining control of them for our own ends, misdirecting or disrupting them for our own purposes or converting sections of their memberships to our cause" "What we need is an organisation that has idealists, people motivated by ideology and an organisation that has - or could have - some form of influence, given the right leadership, in the community." " Appear keen, but not over keen and keep your politics to yourself. Show interest. If you are asked to do anything then do it diligently, work hard. Be courteuous, pleasant, cultivate relationships and make friends. By all means have an opinion, but keep your politics to yourself." "It may be the case that the organisation you have joined has no immediate potential and you may not be able to have any influence or get anything from it. Even so, it may be a organisation that we need to have an influence in as it may well play a vital role in a revolutionary situation. If this is the case then you must stay in and persevere, only becoming active for our own cause when the time is right. We are preparing for the future. The goal is long-term and we must get people into society's institutions right now." " Pick an ideological line that is in tune with our own position and which attacks the current position of the organisation and, most importantly, is an idea or set of ideas that are seen to be just and to which people can rally." "There are no barriers for us. There are no organisations or institutions that we cannot enter. Some might say that we should avoid the enemy and stay away from those over whom it has influence. No. We target them all."
Their commitment to animal welfare is no doubt sincere - but they would also be aware of the kudos that it gives them in the eyes of others, and the excuse that it allows them to engage with others too. The same goes for other charity work - such as Oxfam - remember the recent Food bank / soup kitchen kitchen set up by the Golden Dawn in Greece? remember the housing assistance by Casa Pound in Italy? In addition, Sol Invictus don't have to bother with singing overtly political tunes - they've done it all aready - and that music is still out there - earning tony wakeford money and spreading the message....
Joe Moretti Pearce also makes some tenuous points – Anton Shekhovtsov has also got Troy Southgate as a facebook friend, does that make him a fascist? I don’t think so! Matt Howden is not a fascist, racist, revolutionary conservative or Nazi, he is interested in paganism but his `association’ with Albin Julius is not a `political’ one it is a musical one. Now you may think that makes him a careerist or stupid and that may be but he is not a fascist. Wakeford of course was a fascist and has spent a long time untangling himself from that position, but now I would call him just a conservative. Have you evidence of his `continuing’ relationship with Patrick Harrington? Yes he may well still be a friend of Richard Lawson (who is also absent from political activity) and maybe that is also stupid! Where I am from many anti-fascists know people who were ex fascists and we keep them in the social circle as we know that we can pull them in our direction more easily as social circles are often more important to these people. A lot of the people on this blog and supporters of it portray themselves as vanquishers of fascists, one of you even has a Leatherface or Ed Gein type image as a profile picture, I assume this is to give the impression of a psychotic, avenging force that will hang, decapitate, or destroy all known 'possible' fascists? You play this big man game and somehow assume that this is the way to defeat the fascists. Even then though at the admittedly few gigs that I have been to (of the neo-folk variety) you are never there to carry your argument forward, you once enlisted some SWP hacks to do that for you. So are you the big men with the Tommy guns? Or are you going to be seen as internet warriors hiding behind these scary profile pics and the many puerile comments that litter this blog? All of this does you lot a disservice because there are, of course, some important targets here. Southgate whatever he calls himself is a racial separatist with some very dodgy company who he still cosies up to. Pearce is a misanthropist with an over inflated view of himself and promotes some very stupid ideas about European heritage. Ian Read still talks about `our people’ as though racial science was still mired in the 1890s. But they can be argued out and exposed for the crap ideas they have by active argument and not the scary boy tactics that I assume none of you who talk about this stuff will ever carry out? One of you discussed beating Wakeford to a pulp by kicking him like a drum on a radio show recently, very funny!! A show of force is needed for organised fascists that organise street activity, e.g. if we were in Greece right now we wouldn’t just be talking about this we would be out on the street but these minor music figures can be exposed in argument as their threat is still at the level of ideas, unless you blog warriors can show us how the violence you suggest through your work is going to change minds?
DeleteAnon - the whole point of this site is that 'counter-cultural fascism', or whatever we can agree to call it, cannot be opposed the same way that fascists are opposed when they organised politically (by antifa, ANL, UAF or whatever). The purpose of this site is to try to throw at least a little light on the problem and have the beginnings of a serious argument about it. For the record I am not for banning the groups, but I welcome it when venues cancel gigs by the worst offenders - there is a world of difference between banning something and saying that you don't want it on your home turf. I am against attacks on either groups and - especially - the fans. When people protested at Slimelight they were attempting to put an argument to fans about the nature of, in that case, Sol Invictus, and the fascist associations of some of its members (not just Wakeford's well-known past int he NF but, far more importantly when talking about the group today, Andrew King's writings in Tyr.
DeleteSo, we get it both ways really - people complain that WMTN argues for inappropriate violent attacks and banning of groups (we don't), or we are just keyboard warriors because we talk a big talk about opposing the groups but then don't actually turn up to attack the gigs, or we are diverting from the struggle against 'real' fascists (we aren't - we think that opposition to fascism in the counter-culture is just a small part of opposing fascism generally, which, of course, we hope everyone would do.
Again, for the record, my involvement in this site is not because I see, eg., DiJ as a major problem (I don't, and part of me is bored with taking about them), but because I was just quite shocked at the low level of the discussion about the questions around fascism in the counter-culture, and thought it would be useful to have a site that at least tried to collect better arguments as well as news, etc.
As for the comments on this blog, those are largely the business of the people commenting, not the blog itself.
I'm glad, for example, that Union Chapel cancelled the DiJ booking - I wish more venues took such a position - but if the gig does go ahead (it has been moved to a new venue) I am certain that most of the fans who attend are not fascists, and should not be treated by us as fascists, proto-fascists, whatever.
I don't know who made the comment about kicking Wakeford 'like a drum', or whetever, but, whoever it was, I disagree with that.
DIJ has been banned in France (Paris and Lyon) by the authorities! They know..they do....
ReplyDeleteAnd the London venue has now cancelled too. More news about this when I have it.
ReplyDeleteAnimal Rights is a very tipical nazi theme. That is the reason the y support it. Check Savitri Devi or UNDERSTANDING NAZI ANIMAL PROTECTION AND THE HOLOCAUST, Sax, Arluke (available online)
ReplyDeleteAntónio
This is probably a waste of time on my part but here's my rebuttal to all this government censorship and "anti fascist" protest. Works of art are fundamentally abstract; the intention of the artist with any given work isn't something that an external observer can be 100% certain of. So to attack an artist's livelihood and refuse him a forum to express himself is tyrannical asshole behavior. Furthermore, even if Doug Pierce walked out and said "Here's a new tune called 'Hitler's fucking awesome'" people have the right to express their opinions EVEN IF THEY ARE HIDEOUSLY WRONG! In fact, since you don't seem to be aware of this, I'll hip you to something even more profound: the fact that you actively seek to censor artists expressing themselves makes you 100% worse assholes then they are. How about this, start your own band and write a whole album of songs about how much you hate Death In June! That would probably be a really interesting project and it would be a positive act of creating discourse instead of the negative act of censorship you're engaging in now.
ReplyDeleteJust an honest opinion from an artist who believes in a marketplace of ideas and free expression for all, even those with the most odious views (because from them we learn what we don't want to be).
And I realize that in most European countries you have "anti hate-speech" laws that make saying "Hitler is fucking awesome" a prosecutable crime. I'm from America where you can say whatever you want, right or wrong, regardless of people's feelings.
A belated response to Anonymous of 13 Nov (18:37:00): This is a strange comment in many ways, which conflates general points with personally directed animosity. That’s a common enough fault with these kind of discussions, but it allows people to get away with passing off subjective opinion as fact, and this post seems to set great store by the mediated world of Facebook.
ReplyDeleteIt’s not good enough to explain away the relationship between, say, Matt Howden and Albin Julius as purely ‘musical’; at least, not if one gives any credence to the ideas that Julius has so assiduously promoted. There seems to be an ‘official line’ now circulating that people’s individual political views have no bearing on their musical activities – even when those activities tacitly push the same agenda. We’ve heard it most recently from Douglas Pearce, whose lucrative touring schedule has been threatened by gig cancellations, and it fools no-one. I know nothing about Howden’s politics, but the fact that he has consistently recorded and played with fascists suggests that he’s not opposed to these ideas.
Anton Shekhovtsov is an academic specialising in a particular strand of ‘left’ fascist convergence. He’s explained his professional strategy on this very blog, so that’s an attempted smear which doesn’t quite work. As for ‘evidence’ of a continuing relationship between Wakeford and Pat Harrington, is Facebook friendship (as of December 2nd 2013) good enough for you? Harrington is still pushing the BNP in terms of ‘moral re-armament’ by the way, but perhaps Wakeford’s benign ‘conservatism’ will rub off on his old friend’s views with continued exposure?
PART TWO
ReplyDeleteYour analogy about ‘keeping ex-fascists close’ doesn’t really extend to the world outside the saloon bar, since nobody is admitting to the ideas that they promote though their music. This cowardice makes actively countering these ideas difficult in the extreme, but perhaps the ‘puerile comments which litter this blog’ are an attempt to draw statements of genuine conviction from those who defend fascism from an aesthetic standpoint? The level of debate would be greatly enhanced if these ‘minor music figures' and their brave defenders would drop the coyness and engage with the practical implications of their Eurocentric fixations (although perhaps courting near-exclusively white audiences through a network of codified, symbolic tropes and messages is evidence enough of such engagement?) Oh, and 57,674 ‘likes’ for an unofficial Facebook page makes Death In June something more than ‘minor’ music figures, I’d say.
Where your comment really falls down is in assuming an intimate acquaintance with this blog's contributors and their motivations. You seem to have a particular ‘beef’ with one individual, and choose to paint a wholly misleading picture of his distinctive persona by accusing him of provoking violence. This is a ripe confusion of personal axe-grinding and deliberate denigration worthy of the Daily Mail. You’ve resisted naming names, but it will be obvious to many readers that there’s a personal grudge here which has no place in serious anti-fascist debate; indeed, one might even call it ‘puerile’. I would urge anyone interested to track down the (internet) radio broadcast in question – I did so, out of curiosity, and the HUMOROUS point being made concerned “kicking Wakeford like a drum” in order to install in him some semblance of time-keeping – a COMICAL reference to his continued inability to relate aspects of his far-right past in the correct chronological order. To infer, for the benefit of many who will have missed the show – that this was an incitement to violence is a falsehood which cannot go unchallenged.
Finally, you decry the creed of the blog warrior, as if the half-truths and false opposition that you’ve contributed in some way raise the intellectual bar. You favour street protest a lá Greece over the indulgent business of arguing for one’s politics online, but thankfully we’re not yet at a stage in the UK where mass physical opposition is necessary. Does that render blogging and keeping up a commentary redundant? Of course not, as the BNP’s former ‘Legal Director’ Lee Barnes realised when he orchestrated an internet trolling campaign which continues to this day on mainstream forums.
Rather than cause division and confusion among anti-fascists with your petty personal gripes, shouldn’t we be discussing the rise of anti-immigrant hate crime, the subtle revision towards acceptance of Nazism as in some way ‘neutral’ and the significance (or otherwise) of this music in opening up a cultural space for political ambivalence? There’s no shortage of evidence for that...
The interesting fact about all this is that Death in June have played in Israel of all places and has used Israeli labels to promote his product. Tony Wakeford is married to person of Jewish descent these days and expels and critiques anybody that espouses fascist views, in particular if he finds out they are playing with him. This is a fact coming from a person who has been in the "scene" since the 90's. While I have a lot of respect for the anarchist view, there is a lot of misinformation out there about these so-called fascist bands put out that is not truly deeply studied and fleshed out. Rome, by the way, IS a anti-fascist band that has taken stands with Tony Wakeford criticizing fascist bands, particularly once they have found out that they are possibly playing on tour with them at shows. Anonymous (above), while his English is not entirely accurate because he is from another country, is correct.
ReplyDeleteI would also add that Der Blutharsch (Albin Julius) from what I understand has played in Israel as well. I know he at least has TRIED to play in Israel. He has also used Israeli labels to promote his product.
ReplyDeletePenelope Houston was and is still called Neo Folk way long before, guess someone has stolen definitions. Also neo folk would be Pat Ruthensmear, Gary Floyd and Exene Cervenka.
ReplyDeletethe dawn is ours
ReplyDeleteif the dream is pure
who invites the world
to the final cure?
if it has to be
then, let it be now
light the Odin incence
for the Odin hour!
light the Odin incence
for the Odin hour"
this is my former "john" dougie boy.
the evil of nationalism gets him excited. he usto have me put on a hitler stash and jerk off on him.
he is one of those people who believes that if the night of the long knives wasnt forced on hitler by the party (hitlers best friend was gay) that nazi europe would have been a homosexual utopia. like Israel for the jews
he is not ok in the head and i got tired of beating him up for money
he told me that crisis was not favored by them because of his hitler fetish.
this is 95% accurate because some times i was on skag
bvg
ReplyDelete